These are the instructions given in Pine-Richland classes on how to conduct a Socratic Circle. You will see the judgment against the evil DEBATE, how dare anyone stand by their own beliefs. I wonder what happens to the shy, introverted kids when a significant part of their grades are from their participation in Socratic Circles in the pre-AP and AP English and Social Studies classes – enough part to drop you a letter grade (or more) and enough to make I kid dread taking a class? Is it fair to impact the introvert's chances at getting into the college of their choice because Pine-Richland must follow every Progressive liberal paradigm of education? Why is it ok to just exclude the left-brain, socially awkward students as a permissible form of discrimination, when we all know that some people are BORN THAT WAY? No tolerance for left brainers since "Right-Brain" ala Dan Pink is the flavor of the day.
Adapted from a paper prepared by Shelley Berman, which was based on discussions of the Dialogue Group of the Boston Chapter of Educators for Social Responsibility (ESR).
- Dialogue is collaborative: two or more sides work together toward common understanding.
- Debate is oppositional: two sides oppose each other and
attempt to prove each other wrong.
- Debate is oppositional: two sides oppose each other and
- In dialogue, finding common ground is the goal.
- In debate, winning is the goal.
- In debate, winning is the goal.
- In dialogue, one listens to the other side(s) in order to understand, find meaning and find agreement.
- In debate, one listens to the other side in order to find flaws and to counter its arguments.
- In debate, one listens to the other side in order to find flaws and to counter its arguments.
- Dialogue enlarges and possibly changes a participants point of view.
- Debate affirms a participant's own point of view.
- Debate affirms a participant's own point of view.
- Dialogue reveals assumptions for re-evaluation.
- Debate defends assumptions as truth.
- Debate defends assumptions as truth.
- Dialogue causes introspection on ones own position.
- Debate causes critique of the other position.
- Debate causes critique of the other position.
- Dialogue opens the possibility of reaching a better solution than any of the original solutions.
- Debate defends one's own positions as the best solution
and excludes other solutions.
- Debate defends one's own positions as the best solution
- Dialogue creates an open-minded attitude: an openness to being wrong and an openness to change.
- Debate creates a close-minded attitude, a determination
to be right.
- Debate creates a close-minded attitude, a determination
- In dialogue, one submits ones best thinking, knowing that other people's reflections will help improve it rather than destroy it.
- In debate, one submits one's best thinking and defends
it against challenge to show that it is right.
- In debate, one submits one's best thinking and defends
- Dialogue calls for temporarily suspending one's beliefs.
- Debate calls for investing wholeheartedly in one's beliefs.
- Debate calls for investing wholeheartedly in one's beliefs.
- In dialogue, one searches for basic agreements.
- In debate, one searches for glaring differences.
- In debate, one searches for glaring differences.
- In dialogue one searches for strengths in the other positions.
- In debate one searches for flaws and weaknesses in the other position.
- In debate one searches for flaws and weaknesses in the other position.
- Dialogue involves a real concern for the other person and seeks to not alienate or offend.
- Debate involves a countering of the other position without focusing on feelings or relationship and often belittles or deprecates the other person.
- Debate involves a countering of the other position without focusing on feelings or relationship and often belittles or deprecates the other person.
- Dialogue assumes that many people have pieces of the answer and that together they can put them into a workable solution.
- Debate assumes that there is a right answer and that
someone has it.
- Debate assumes that there is a right answer and that
- Dialogue remains open-ended.
- Debate implies a conclusion.
- Debate implies a conclusion.
we actually do have debates in Mr. Byko's honors/pre-AP English 10 class, so its not as if the school ignores them. However, the way that dialogue is described above is another important perspective in today's world, where we can't simply impose our viewpoints on other people in the way that you want to. At the same time, the socratic seminars that I have experienced have been more of a mix of the two, rather than purely the dialogue described above. Not to mention, these upper level classes are designed to prepare students for college, and having at this point visited a number of colleges, I know that many of them use Socratic Seminar set-ups. Therefore, if shy kids are truly ready for these courses, they will be able to overcome that aspect of themselves, at least during classroom discussions (which would be necessary in a debate and a dialogue anyway?) Besides, I know that student success in seminars does not correlate with their "popularity" or their social skills.
ReplyDelete-A student
I don't think you understand Socratic seminars at all. We discuss points and are encouraged to say if we don't agree. Not all seminars end with everyone agreeing. And of course shy kids will have some trouble ,but in every class I have taken, teachers have been great with making sure everyone gets a chance to express their views. And Socratic seminars are the original way of teaching. They are about as conservative as it gets.
ReplyDelete-a student
You have a few separate issues here:
ReplyDelete1. These seminars put shy kids at a disadvantage.
Well, guess what ... sooner or later your children will have to learn to voice their opinion. Social interaction will be in all aspects of their life, and it's better that they learn now that at college.
If you're concerned about the grade, many classes don't include seminars for this exact reason, you can write down your points and turn that in for credit if you didn't have time/confidence to speak, or you could do what you did and go to a different district.
2. You're supposed to leave your opinion at the door and have an open-minded attitude.
This just means that the documents are supposed to be approached in an objective manner.
Objective: I'm going to try and read this and temporarily suspend judgment.
Subjective: I'm going to try to read these student essays and symposium papers in search of weakness to tear them apart later on my blog.
In this world, it is crucial to have an open mind and learn to RESPECT other opinions and ideas that may conflict with your own.
It's all about how you approach the ideas.
3. You're supposed to work together to reach a collaborative conclusion.
Let me clarify what students talk about: Not morals. Not whether abortion/Christianity/homosexuality/insert-other-concern-here is right or wrong. We just discover what the writer's intent was, and it's stressed that we can disagree or agree freely with the writer, but the point is to analyze the document.
Especially since the students participating are teenagers, I see no flaw with teaching them that they aren't always right!
This idea of compromise doesn't always work - the discussions often end in disagreement, and the whole point is learning to respect other opinions and work together to find a workable summary of the document.
-a student
The guidance counselors discourage quiet students from taking pre-AP/AP English and Social Studies classes because the Socratic Circles are a big part of all the courses and the grades make up a substantial part of the overall course grade. Not all bright kids want to endure these group discussions. This is just another FAD in education, and the AP tests are WRITTEN, not oral.
ReplyDeleteI don't see the link here:
ReplyDeleteYou're upset that your shy, bright daughter shouldn't take Honors/AP social studies because of these Socratic Seminars. You want her to be able to have these AP and advanced classes for college.
Therefore, you pull your children out of PR and put them into a very small and limited catholic school that doesn't even offer AP courses?
Right you are Crosbycat. The AP test is indeed a written exam. Care to tell me what it is like in application in College or at a job? You don't merely memorize facts and regurgitate them on paper, a method of evaluation that fosters cramming and encourages the student to remember information for only a brief time before moving onto a completely different subject. I am a product of these so called "progressive" classrooms that you seem to zeal in pointing out your self-assumed error, and I say with complete confidence that my first semester of college, one which ended with a 3.9 on the Dean's List of a very prestigious university (one that is, as it were, largely considered to be a conservative one) is due to my participation in these socratic discussions. Tell me what happens to introverts after they leave they leave high school? They either learn to cooperate, contribute and be actively engaged in discourse and debate, or they not only loose out on nearly every personally and fiscally advantageous business decision but they become obsolete as a means of competition. High School is supposed to serve as a safety net which encourages students who may not understand the workings of higher level thinking right away to get back on their feet and try again. Is it a struggle at first? Yes. Is a college level education, set up much in the same way, a struggle the whole way through? Absolutely. This "progressive" teaching method is absolutely essential to a modern education; one which prepares our students to be ready and willing to face the challenges, international and domestic, that face them in whatever field they choose. Your logic, my dear Crosbycat, is a fallacy of the greatest kind. I find your lack of enlightenment and fixation on nonexistent political extremes disturbing.
ReplyDelete-A proud Alumnus